Sleaford Mods’ Jason Williamson on his past feud with Noel Gallagher and the duo’s next move
Sleaford Mods frontman Jason Williamson has spoken to NME about the band’s new material, their £5 tickets for fans on low incomes, his own working-class roots, Oasis’ reunion, his past feud with Noel Gallagher and his thoughts on Keir Starmer’s performance as Prime Minister so far.
Williamson was speaking ahead of the Abbey Road Music Photography Awards (MPAs), for which he’d been a judge alongside the likes of founding judge Rankin and Gossip’s Beth Ditto. Held on October 4 at the famed London studio, the ceremony featured a surprise appearance from one Noel Gallagher, who presented legendary snapper Jill Furmanovsky with the Icon Award.
This year’s nominated entries will be exhibited at London’s Royal Albert Hall from October 8 to November 12. Check out our full interview with Williamson below, where he told us about the importance of photography in telling a musician’s story, and how that applies to himself and Mods producer Andrew Fearn.
NME: Hi Jason! Have you spent much time at Abbey Road before?
Jason Williamson: “We did the judging for the photography awards about two months ago. And I’ve been recording down there as well. We did a collaboration with Hot Chip. It really works! That’s coming out mid-November. It should be good. It’s in aid of War Child. There are two tracks and it’s coming out on a physical. It’s quite hush-hush, though, so I can’t really say anything else at the minute.”
What were you looking for when you were judging the Abbey Road Music Photography Awards?
“I was just looking for what I look for in photos generally. I like real situations as opposed to proper shoots, and that came in with the more DIY category [the Underground Scenes Award, won by Lemphek] and the Live Music Award [won by Francis Mancini]. It was interesting to sit there and see what other people were into. You learn a bit, don’t you? It was quite an insightful day. But generally what I was looking for was stuff that seemed a little bit off-the-cuff.”
What makes a great music photo?
“It helps if you’re good-looking. [Laughs] Be honest! It helps if you’re happy with how you look. But what I’ve learned from our stuff is that we are who we are, so I like to see something that connects with the music. Anything to try and convey how we’re feeling in the music at the time. We don’t like to put ourselves in situations where we’re having photos outside the job centre anymore because that’s not part of our lives. We’re not going to estates to have our photos taken. That’s just unacceptable.”
There was an amazing NME shoot, about a decade ago, where you and Andrew were standing in a pile of rubble…
“Yeah, that was done in Berlin. We were playing Berlin that night and the [photographer] was like, ‘Your music seems to be dismantling the idea of what music should be. Let’s try and find something that’s ruined but looks like it could be made into something else.’ And obviously a pile of bricks is a great example, innit? Music photography is an art form and it’s not really getting the props it deserves.”
This year’s Icon Award winner Jill Furmanovsky‘s early Oasis photos are suitably iconic…
“[Oasis] were just so normal, weren’t they? They were quite regular… but not. Her photos perfectly captured the nature of the band. Liam Gallagher was a really powerful example of how you can wear casual clothing and just look really, really good. That was just as powerful as the music for me. At that time, I was dressing in retro ‘60s stuff ‘cause I just didn’t know where to go. And then you’ve got these lads who come out in baggy jeans and grandad shirts. It really did capture a mood. It really did act as a resurgence for working-class identity and culture.”
Are you excited about their reunion?
“Well, I’ve not really thought about it. I’m happy for Liam. I think he wanted it really badly. There’s nothing wrong with it – I think he felt at home in Oasis. And all this ticket thing [the controversy over Oasis’ dynamic pricing]… I don’t even think they were consulted on it, to be honest. All the best to ‘em.”
You recently announced that you’re selling £5 gig tickets for people on low incomes. Is that a complex thing to square with promoters and others with vested interests?
“It’s quite a complicated procedure. But we’ve always tried to keep the gig tickets at a reasonable price. I think they’ve probably gone up five or six quid over the last 10 years for most gigs. In Europe it’s slightly more expensive. But we try and keep it at a price point that’s accessible for people. It’s worth taking the hit because some of the messages from people [who can’t afford tickets], it just breaks your heart.
“I’m in a lot better position financially than I was 10 years ago and sometimes your ship does leave the port and you kind of forget, but when you get messages like that, it brings it back to you. A lot of people are struggling, so if we can help some people, it does mean a lot. I’ve found as I get older that the real help is trying to help people directly around you. I think the £5 tickets are representative of that.”
You have a small but powerful role in the upcoming film Bird, which was made by American Honey director Andrea Arnold…
“She’s brilliant, isn’t she? I had to go in and do some overdubs and I saw the scene. I thought: ‘I hope I haven’t ruined it for her!’ She’s fantastic. She comes from a background that’s pretty similar [to mine]. A lot of the people you meet that come from a similar background, you’re a little bit more at ease with them. She was totally easy to work for. I’ve done a few acting jobs and she was above all one of the most enjoyable, easiest people to work with. She’s got a big reputation, but you wouldn’t know it. She’s just really cool.
“Mostly it was improvised. There was a script, but we worked loosely with it. She likes you to bring more of a momentary thing to it.”
Do you plan to do more acting?
“We’re having a little bit of a think about it. I go through phases of: ‘Am I any good?’ You know: the usual self-doubt shit. But I like doing it. If I get offered stuff, it’s far better, but if I’m having to get an agent and properly put myself about, I’ve been having real problems with that ‘cause I don’t know if it’s totally for me.”
When we spoke in 2020, Keir Starmer had just been elected Labour leader. You were suspicious of his knighthood, but were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. How’s he doing?
“He’s just getting trounced on at the minute. My mind isn’t made up; it’s early days. But people forget that for the last 12 years, you had a group of people siphoning off money at an unbelievable rate, pitting people against each other, creating culture war after culture war. They rode off the back of lockdown and manipulated that into a fucking culture war! I’ve got an open mind about him still.
“This country’s in such a dire state, we’re just not gonna win at the minute. There isn’t that much of a place for this idea of socialism that people seem to want. It’s been fucked up, so it’s a hard job. In the words of Tony Blair: ‘You try running the fucking country!’ As I get older, it’s not as black and white. It’s like: ‘You’re a cunt! You’re a cunt! You’re not a cunt! Oh! Hold on! You’re a cunt!’”
So you don’t think there’s much chance of a more left-wing Government at the moment?
“But what is ’left‘? The idea of left, to me, is compassionate politics, politics that thinks about the welfare of the masses. All I can do is try and be an asset in my own community. I don’t see any point in sitting on Twitter all day having a go at people. It’s just not getting anyone anywhere.”
You used to enjoy that, mind…
“I did, yeah. And now I’ve grown up. I’m a big boy. A lot of my anger was coming from a place that wasn’t necessarily connected to the people I was throwing it at. I’m getting to the point now where it’s like, just because someone likes to wear a certain pair of trousers, it doesn’t make ‘em a cunt.
“Going back to the ‘90s, to the Oasis era, it was a really powerful thing to slag people off who you thought were shit. Noel and Liam were very, very good at it. It went through people and they started having a go at anything they thought was shit, so I think it stemmed a lot from that. But yes: I went at it. For the large part, though, I don’t believe in that approach anymore.”
It must have felt weird when you and Noel had a war of words in the press after Mods first became successful in the mid-2010s…
“It was a bit odd, really, when Noel used to knock us and that. I got really wound up about it. But that’s just the way it is. I wouldn’t do it now, no, but at the time I was so obsessed with the idea of what Mods should be and it just wasn’t going that way. So anything that contrasted with that and looked like it was dragging the idea of it down, you’d have a pop at.”
How did it feel to recently mark the 10th anniversary of your breakthrough album, ‘Divide and Exit’?
“I’ve been rehearsing a lot of those songs for the UK tour and you can’t fault it, you know what I mean? There’s a high professionalism there that I think a lot of acts at the time were missing. I always wanted to be something that reignited a sound or started something off. And I think we did that. ‘Divide and Exit’ is the perfect example, as well as ‘Key Markets’ [2015] and to a certain degree ‘English Tapas’ [2017]. Those three albums were responsible for engineering what was a lot of the post-punk thing.”
It was so exciting when ‘Divide and Exit’ came out because it really captured a zeitgeist…
“It was the first album that had the solidified Sleaford Mods formula. It was like a whirlwind. It was our ‘What’s the Story (Morning Glory)?’ [Laughs] Two very different albums, obviously! I felt all our dreams had come true. But things had changed in the way music was sold and we were on a DIY label, so it was a weird one: we had this success, but it didn’t mushroom financially.”
When did things change financially?
“I think around ‘Spare Ribs’ (2020) and ‘Eton Alive’ (2019). I’d left work in 2014, just before the release of ‘Key Markets’. Things were OK and we weren’t struggling, but ‘Spare Ribs’ elevated it to a whole different level. It just kind of blew up for us again.”
It’s been over a year since last album ‘UK Grim‘. Are you and Andrew working on new material at the moment?
“Yeah, we’re starting a new album now. We’ve had a few sessions already. Things aren’t so much shaping up; it takes a while to get back into the groove of it. You always go in with: ‘I wanna try this, I wanna try that.’ And you try it and it doesn’t quite work, so eventually you go back to the formula but there is all of this subconscious change – life, I guess – that then applies itself to the formula, and it then changes. Not massively, but it shifts along. So it’s like a chemistry lesson!
“I wanna go rap-centric, or rant. It’s just gonna be blocks of shouting again – as per usual! [Laughs] You learn to fall in love again with the formula. I’m lucky I’ve got Andrew Fearn, really. His music is like a whole universe of selection. It’s like getting into a spaceship and taking your pick for two weeks!”
Sleaford Mods’ 10th anniversary re-issue of ‘Divide & Exit is out now, with the band set to celebrate the album on an intimate UK tour in November. Check out full dates below, and visit here for tickets and more information.
NOVEMBER
19 – Sheffield – The Leadmill
20 – Edinburgh – La Belle Angèle
21 – Newcastle upon Tyne – University of Northumbria
23 – Liverpool – The Florrie
26 – Lincoln – The Drill
28 – Exeter – The Lemon Grove
29 – Portsmouth – The Wedgewood Rooms
30 – Nottingham – Bodega
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Jordan Bassett
NME
