Tobias Forge on new material and the future of Ghost: “If fans need the lore to like the band, that element will be over quite soon”

It’s been a while since Tobias Forge first introduced the world to Ghost – emerging with the groundbreaking album ‘Opus Eponymous’ and reinvigorating the metal scene with the all-encompassing story of the ‘Clergy’. Fast forward 15 years, and there is little doubt that the band have become one of the most influential names in recent memory, crafting a world that transcends musical barriers and now exists in literature, film and beyond.

With their highly anticipated sixth album ‘Skeletá’ set to arrive on April 25, NME catches up with the frontman at a hotel in Soho and reveals how his tumultuous journey helped shape the record, as well as how it will be more inward-looking than ever before.

“I am a believer that most of history has a tendency to circle around, both good and bad,” he tells us. “Big societal and structural critique is an evergreen subject, but the eternal human elements of it are equally important. So I went into this writing process with the intention of writing one love song, one hate song, one hope song, one regret song — all kinds of basic human sentiments.”

Alongside the upcoming album – which has so far been previewed by the anthemic lead single ‘Satanized’ – the band are also continuing the tradition of developing a new frontman for each LP cycle. This time around, it comes in the form of the extravagant Papa Perpetua, a figurehead whose purple robes and chromatic detailing hint at a more modernised chapter.

“ I can’t really say much until he has been able to strut around and find his place,” Forge tells us about how the leading man fits into the wider Ghost story. “When it comes to the characters within the lore, they are humans with the same fears and needs as everyone else. They’re just searching for a sense of purpose.”

Check out the discussion with Tobias Forge in full below, where he tells NME about how Ghost has evolved, the struggle to find his place in the industry, their upcoming slot at Black Sabbath’s final show, and whether there could be an end in sight for the band.

NME: Hi Tobias, congratulations on the new album! What can fans expect to see from ‘Skeletá’?

Tobias Forge: “ I’m not a great salesman, but it’s 10 songs of hopefully healing joy. The previous record [2022’s ‘Impera’] was written as part of a socially-reflective bigger picture. It was about shining a light on society. So when making a new record, I wasn’t enthused by the idea of writing a follow-up or ‘Impera 2’ — I wanted it to be something else. I’ve always tried to do something different from the previous one, so this time, I wanted to make a record that was based on introspection.”

We are also meeting Papa V – what can we expect him to contribute to the band’s story?

“I can’t really make a profile description of who he is just yet, [but with Ghost] we have our real band story, and then we have our lore. The lore serves as a humoristic commentary, but it also follows the subjects presented on the records. As opposed to the public misunderstanding that it is all about Satan, it’s actually all about being alive. It’s a very simple but hugely broad concept… I think the characters are just searching for a sense of purpose.”

When it comes to designing a character, how much of yourself do you allow to seep in? Is there an element of wanting to keep a distance between yourself and the person fans see on the stage?

“ My therapist would probably say that. I’ve always intuitively felt that I had a mission to act, and anything I would act as on stage was going to be in the form of a character. There are a lot of artists that do that, but it’s often to the point of confusion because they are very much like their character — whereas I have literally created this other person. For me, it’s about getting the end result to be something that resembles an interesting thing.

“ When it comes to writing songs and storytelling, I always write what I see, what I feel and what I want to relay to others. Maybe on the first record, that was more distant, but there was still a social commentary. It still had that sting of dual messaging that became much more evident going forward.”

How would you say things have changed from working on that debut album up to now?

“That first record was written in a vacuum where I had no idea what [Ghost] was going to be. It was a completely soul-driven project that happened to become the thing that made my dream of becoming a professional musician come true. I don’t think anybody would applaud if I started repeating that, though… even though in metal circuits, your authenticity is measured by your repetitiveness. That’s something a lot of people say, ‘I only like that record’ or ‘I preferred them when they were like this’, but I think it’s comforting when artists are moving ahead because that means that you can preserve the thing that you like.

“Even in hard rock, you will not go anywhere if you just repeat yourself. So [for this record], I felt like, ‘I’m not going to worry about that. I know I am authentic, so I’m just going to follow my heart.’ Now, when I have people interested in what I’m saying, I’m going to say something more interesting, I can’t just repeat the same fictional stuff.”

Was it through having a vision of what you wanted the band to become that separated it from your previous bands?

“ No, I didn’t know what it was going to be until we started. I was moving around in underground circles for most of my adolescence and I always wanted to be as efficient and successful as possible. When I was playing underground death metal [before Ghost], it wasn’t like I didn’t want to succeed. I wanted to succeed, I wanted to be on a real label, I wanted to be out touring.

“When the first Ghost album came out, and we got [momentum] in the underground scene, it was an explosive event because I had been in bands before where it was always a slower tug.”

So it was about finding your identity in those early days?

“For a long time, I was under the belief that I was going to be a guitar player only. I wanted to be like John Frusciante, the guitar player behind a singer who also sings great harmonies. Then, in the 2000s, when I was in my twenties, there was this huge rock wave with The Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, Kaiser Chiefs, and I thought it could be something [for me to pursue]. Then, I learned very quickly that if you see the wave, you’ve missed it.

“I was struggling with finding my place during that time. I went from being a teenager, single, having no job, waiting for the big break, and transgressed into someone who was a partner and had two children. There were friends of mine who were like, ‘Just give up on that fucking dream. It’s not happening,’ and I did feel at a certain point that I probably would not be a musician. If I was going to live without having realised my dream, I needed to have some outlet for my creativity.

“Out of everything that I was working on at that time, Ghost was the one thing where I felt like ‘If I’m going to do one thing for five per cent of my life, I want to do this’. Part of that was because it was wrapped in another face, and it was literally someone else.”

Even before Rite Here Rite Now, it was clear that Ghost was very influenced by film. Have you considered getting more involved in that industry?

“Absolutely. I have always been almost equally interested in film as I’ve been in music. But because I’m not a very scholastic person, quite quickly in school [I felt like I] hit the ceiling in terms of how far I could evolve with that. Nowadays, you can have a successful life without being greatly educated, but at the time, I felt that there was a certain degree of scholasticism that needed to go into making film. I know now that’s not necessarily true, there are directors and scriptwriters who never went to film school.

“Earlier in my life, I saw a venture down that route as something that was going to take away from my music and something that would require me to start studying. Now, though, I have dipped my feet a little into the film world, and I’m beginning to recognise where there might be a spot for me. A place where my USP can be valuable. I believe that I can go down that route.”

It is hard to think of many of today’s artists who are reaching the same heights as Ghost. Is there an end goal you have in terms of the band’s journey?

“I think that there might be an end to the storytelling because it’s not productive to have this endless soap opera. If fans need the lore in order to like the band, then that element will probably be over quite soon.

“If there is a way where the music can be enough and remains enjoyable, though, I am just as needy as any other artist in the sense of milestones that I want to achieve. There are still places that I want to play and still things I want to do that will be another feather in my hat. I am very lucky that I’ve been able to achieve many of those things, but there are still levels of success that I want.”

What kind of goals are on your radar now?

“For the last decade or so, there’s been this ongoing chatter in the music business – especially in the rock business – of ‘rock is dead’ or ‘no new bands can become big’. Ghost, as well as a few others, are living proof that that is not true. I’m not saying that you can become a new AC/DC, but we are living proof that you still can do it. There are more recent bands around, like Sleep Token, who are succeeding, so obviously, you can become a bigger band.

“Rammstein, for a long, long time, were just an arena band. They were well known for their big shows, but they were only playing arenas. Then they decided to do a stadium tour, and all of a sudden, they went from 15,000 people every night to 55,000, three nights in a row! In terms of sheer achievements, I would love to make that a journey. That would be fantastic, simply because I’m very interested in stage production.

“My fascination with that really exploded into obsessive fandom in the ‘80s when I saw The Rolling Stones. When I was eight years old, they released ‘Steel Wheels’ and did a tour through America… If you guys think Rammstein’s stage is cool, ‘Steel Wheels Tour’ was the absolute behemoth. That’s where I set the standard — being able to build this giant thing that people come to see, and it just takes over a city. I’ve always been obsessed with that idea of being behind that turmoil that comes in and disrupts a city.”

Speaking of rock and metal icons, you will be performing at the star-studded final Black Sabbath show later this summer. How has the band had an impact on your journey as an artist?

“ Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne have been a tremendous influence on me. Ozzy as a frontman and Ozzy as a solo artist is something I put a divide between, because I grew up in the ‘80s where he was much more of a rockstar than Black Sabbath were. I gravitated towards that, but I also grew up listening to the old Black Sabbath records. Nowadays, I love most Black Sabbath releases. Even the ‘80s and ‘90s albums, I love them for what they are, and the Dio era also has a very special place in my heart, too.

“‘Vol. 4’, ‘Sabbath Bloody Sabbath’ and ‘Sabotage’ have been absolute milestones for me for as long as I’ve been writing music. They’ve been very influential, even though it might not be super evident. I’ve always listened to them, and I’ve always been inspired by them.

“As far as introspection goes and being a little bit more brave lyrically, you see that in Geezer [Butler]’s lyrics. He has always been much more naked and brave than he’s getting credit for. Most metal fans only [care about] the heaviness, but it has so much more.  Heaviness is great, but there’s so much more in that kitchen. There’s not only meat and potatoes, there’s a lot of other seasonings and very nice wine.”

‘Skeletá’ is set for release on April 25, and Ghost are set to embark on a huge tour later this year. Visit here for tickets and more information.

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